Antigone between two deaths安提贡尼处于两次死亡之间
雄伯译
SUPPLEMENTARY NOTE补充笔记
I would like now to focus on the meaning I give to such an exploration of the tragedy of Antigone.
我现在想要专注于我给予的这个意义，来探索安提贡尼的悲剧。
It may have seemed demanding to some of you. For some time now I have
used the metaphor of the rabbit and the hat in connection with a certain way of making something appear from analytical discourse that isn't there. I might almost say that on this occasion I have put you to the test of eating raw rabbits. You can relax now. Take a lesson from the boa constrictor. Have a little nap and the whole thing will pass through. You will even notice on waking that you have digested something after all.
对于你们一些人而言，这可能似乎是要求严酷。现在有段时间，为曾经使用兔子与帽子的隐喻，关于某些的方式，让某件东西从并不在那里的精神分析的辞说出现。我几乎可能说，在这个场合，我已经让你们接受生吃兔子的考验。你们现在能够轻松。从大蟒蛇获得教训。假如你们小睡个午觉，然后全部的事情就会烟消云散。你们清醒时甚至知道，你们毕竟已经消化了某件东西。
It is on account of the procedure I have adopted - and it's no doubt quite a demanding one obviously, quite a tough one - of requiring you to accompany me in breaking the stones along the road of the text that it will enter your body. You will see in retrospect that even if you are not aware of it, the latent, fundamental image of Antigone forms part of your morality, whether you like it or not. That's why it is important to analyze its meaning, and it's not the watered-down meaning in the light of which its lesson is usually transmitted.
因为我採用的程序—无可置疑地，这个程序显而易见是严酷，相当困难—它要求你们陪伴我，沿着它将进入你们身体的途中，打破那些石头。你们回顾时将会看出，即使你们并不知道它，安提贡尼这个潜在的基本的意象，形成你们道德的一部分，无论你们喜欢与否。那就是为什么这是重要的，要分析它的意义。它并不是被稀释过的意义，从这个意义的观点，它的教训通常被传递出去。
Involved here is nothing more nor less than the reinterpretation of the
Sophoclean message. You can certainly resist this resharpening of the text's high points, but if you decide to reread Sophocles, you will perceive the distance we have traveled. Even if I am challenged on a given point - for I don't exclude the possibility that I, too, on occasion may misinterpret something- I believe I have dissipated the all-encompassing nonsense in which Sophocles is carefully preserved by a certain tradition.
在此被牵涉的实实在在就是重新诠释索福克利斯的讯息。你们确实能够抗拒这种重新塑造文本的高潮。但是假如你们决定重新阅读索福克利斯，你们将会感觉我们曾经旅行过的差异。即使在某个观点我被挑战—因为我没有排除这个可能性: 我有时也会错误地解释事情—我相信我已经排除这种涵盖一切的胡说，在那里，索福克利斯仔细的被某个传统保留。
While I was discussing that with some of you who were countering my
views with memories they had of reading Oedipus at Colonus - memories that
were obviously influenced by the scholarly interpretation - I remembered a little footnote. There are people here who like footnotes. So I will read one that is to be found in a work that psychoanalysts ought to have read at least once, namely, Erwin Rohde's Psyche, of which there exists an excellent French translation.
虽然我正在跟你们反驳我的观点的那些人讨论那个观点，因为他们阅读「伊狄浦斯王」，还存有的记忆。这些记忆显而易见地受到学术性的诠释—我记得有一个脚注。在此的人们喜欢那个脚注。所以我将阅读能够找到的一个脚注，精神分析家本来应该阅读那个脚注至少一次。换句话说，欧文、罗德的「心灵」。有一本很优秀的法文版。
On the whole, you will find more there, and more that is certain, concerning that which Greek civilization has handed down to us than in any work originally written in French. The most brilliant people on earth don't have all the arrows in their quiver. As it is, we are unfortunate enough to have a romantic movement that didn't rise much above the level of a certain idiocy, and we by no means possess all the advantages when it comes to erudition.
大体上，你们将会在那发现更多，更多确定的东西，关于希腊文明曾经传递给与我们的东西，超过法文版原初写作的任何著作。世界上即使是最杰出的人们都没有拥有所有的箭可以弹射。事实上，我们足够不幸拥有一个浪漫主义运动，它并没有提升高于某种白痴的层层。我们绝对没有拥有所有的利益，就广博的学问而言。
On page 463 of the French translation of Erwin Rohde's book, you will
find a little footnote on Oedipus at Colonus, which I have already discussed
with you in terms that are directly related to what I am concerned with today.
在欧文、罗德的书店法文翻译的463页，你们将会找到论「伊狄浦斯王」的一个小脚注。为已经跟你们讨论过了，用今天我关心的主题直接相关的术语。
Rohde writes: "One only has to read the play with an open mind to realize
that this savage, angry, pitiless old man who calls down horrible curses on his sons" - Rohde is perfectly correct, for twenty minutes before the end of the play, Oedipus is still crushing Polynices beneath the weight of his curses - "and who as a man thirsty for revenge looks forward passionately to the misfortunes that are about to descend on his native town, has none of that profound peace of the gods, of that transfiguration associated with the penitent, which traditional exegesis is pleased to observe in him. The poet does not make a habit of disguising life's realities, and here he shows himself to be fully aware that destitution and misfortune do not usually have the effect of transfiguring man; they depress him rather and strip him of his nobility. His Oedipus is pious. He was from the beginning in Oedipus Rex, but in his distress he turns savage."
罗德写到：「我们仅必须做的是带着开放的心灵，为了体会到，这个野蛮，愤怒，可怜的老年，对于他的儿子们发出可怕的诅咒」。罗德非常正确，因为戏剧结束前二十分钟，伊狄浦斯仍然将波利尼西斯笼罩在他的诅咒之下。作为一位渴望报复的人，他激情地期待即将降临他的祖国城邦的那些不幸。他并没有获得众神的那种深刻的平静，那种跟悔罪者息息相关的转变。传统的圣典诠释学很乐意在他身上观察到这种转变。诗人并没有养成伪装生命的现实的这个习惯，在此他显示他自己充分地知道，丧失一切与不幸通常并没有转变一个人：它们让他相当沮丧，并且剥夺掉他的高贵尊严。他的伊狄浦斯是虔诚的。「从伊狄浦斯王」，他从一开始就是虔诚。但是在他的痛苦当中，他转变成为野蛮。」
That is the testimony of a reader who is not especially concerned with the problems of tragedy, since his work is an historical account of the different concepts that the Greeks had of the soul.
那就是一位读者的证词。这位读者并没有特别关心悲剧的这个问题，因为他的工作是用历史角度描绘希腊人对灵魂的不同的观念。
As far as we are concerned, I have tried to show you that at a time that
preceded the ethical formulations of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, Sophocles presents us with man and questions him along the paths of his solitude; he situates the hero in a sphere where death encroaches on life, in his relationship, that is, to what I have been calling the second death here. This relationship to being suspends everything that has to do with transformation, with the cycle of generation and decay or with history itself, and it places us on a level that is more extreme than any other insofar as it is directly attached to language as such.
就我们而言，我曾经尝试跟你们显示：在苏格拉底，柏拉图与亚里斯多德的伦理学的说明之前的时期，索福克利斯呈现给与我们有关人，并且询问他，沿着他的孤独的途径。他将这位英雄定位在死亡侵入生命的范围，在他的关心，换句话说，跟我在此一直称为是二次死亡的关系。这个跟生命实存的关系，悬置每样跟转变有关系的东西。用产生与腐败的循环，或用历史的本身。它将我们放置在比起其他更加极端的层次，因为它跟语言的本身直接关联。
To put it in the terms of Levi-Strauss - and I am certain that I am not mistaken in invoking him here, since I was instrumental in having had him reread Antigone and he expressed himself to me in such terms - Antigone
with relation to Creon finds herself in the place of synchrony in opposition to diachrony.
用列文、史特劳斯的术语来表达，我确定我并没有错误，在此召唤他。因为我曾经助他一臂之力，让他重新阅读安提贡尼。他用以下术语亲自跟我表达：安提贡你跟克瑞恩的关系，让她处于共时性的位置，对抗历史性位置。
I have stopped half-way in what I might have said about the text. We are not in a position to exhaust its significance this year, if only for reasons of time, but it is clear that the question raised at the end concerns what I shall call the divine use of Antigone.
对于这个文本，我本来可能尽情说出的东西，我曾经适可而止。我们今年的立场并不适合将它的意义完全讲尽，即使光是时间不够的因素。但是显而易见地，结局被提出的问题，跟我将称为的安提贡尼的神性的用途有关。
In this connection one might make a number of comparisons. Antigone
hanging in her tomb evokes something very different from an act of suicide,
since there are all kinds of myths of hanged heroines, including girls, such as that of Erigone, who is linked to the advent of the cult of Dionysos. Dionysos has given wine to her father, but because he doesn't know its properties, he violates her and dies. She then hangs herself on his tomb. It is an explanatory myth of a whole rite in which we see more or less simplified and symbolic images of girls hanging from trees. In short, one finds there a whole ritual and mythical background, which may be brought back to resituate in its religious harmony all that is produced on the stage. It is nevertheless true that from a Sophoclean perspective the hero has nothing to do with that kind of use. Antigone is someone who has already set her sights on death. The invocation that is wrapped around this stem is something else; it doesn't have to do with human defiance here.
关于这点，我们可以从事许多比较。安提贡尼在她的墓室召唤某件非常不同的东西，跟自杀的行动不同。因为有各种的垂吊而死的女英雄的神话，包括女孩们，譬如，阿丽贡尼，她跟戴奥尼修斯的信徒的到来有关系。戴奥尼修斯曾经将葡萄酒给她的父亲，但是因为他并不知道葡萄酒的特性，他性侵犯他，然后死掉。她因此在他的墓室自己上吊自杀。这是一整套仪式的解释的神话。在那里，我们看见相当被简化于象征化的意象：女孩们上吊树上自杀。总之，我们有一整套的仪式于神秘的背景，可能被带回来重新将舞台上被产生的一切，定位在它的宗教的和谐。可是，这是真实的，从索福克利斯蒂观点，这位英雄跟那种用途，并没有丝毫的关系。安提贡尼是某个已经死亡在望的人。被笼罩在这个起源的召唤是别的东西。它跟在此的人类的挑衅，并没有必然的关系。
That's as far as I will go today. Involved in what I had to say to you about catharsis is the beauty effect. The beauty effect derives from the relationship of the hero to the limit, which is defined on this occasion by a certain Ate.
今天就我本身而言，在我必须跟你们言说的，关于心灵净化所牵涉的东西，就是美的效应。这个美的效应从英雄跟这个限制的关系获得。在这个场合，这个限制被定义为某种悲惨命运Ate。
And on that subject I will now, so to speak, pass the word to someone else (passer la parole), conscious of the fact that I am using the very definitions of the structure of the seminar.
对于那个主题，我现在将会传递这个字词，给某位意识到这个事实的某个人。事实上，我正在使用这个研讨班的结构的各种定义。
In effect, I don't want to be the one who, like some jack-of-all trades, takes upon himself alone the task of poking about in all those more-or-less heterogeneous fields that offer the traditional formulations of these things.
事实上，我并不想要成为样样知道，没有一样精通的这个人。这种人单独担负起这个责任，探索所有各色各样的领域，提供传统的说明这些事情。
At a certain level within you, I mean all of you individually at a certain point in your thinking, there is a form of resistance to the things I am trying to express, and it consists of making sympathetic comments that are more or less ambiguous in kind on what has come to be known as my learning or, as is also said, my cultural background. It's something I don't like. It also has a negative side; one wonders where I find the time to assemble all that. But you will recognize that my existence began a little before yours. I may not have had two hundred years of mowing like an English lawn, but I am getting there. In any case, I am closer than you are, and I've had time to forget several times over the things I discuss with you.
在你们之内的某个层次，我的意思是，你们所有人都有个别的层次，在你们的思想。有一种抗拒的形式，对于我正在尝试表达的东西。它在于发布相当暧昧的同情的评论，关于渐渐为大家所知的我的学习，或者说是我的文化的背景。那是某件我并不喜欢的东西。它也有负面的一面。我们想要知道我在哪里找到时间，来整合这一切。但是你们将会体认出，我的存在开始早先你们好几年。我可能没有花好几百年来像英国草地那样清除乾净，但是逐渐到达那里。无论如何，我比起你们更加靠近。我曾经有好几次的时间，忘记我跟你们讨论的事情。
I would, therefore, like today to ask someone to speak about the beautiful who seems to me to be particularly well-equipped to discuss it in relation to something that I take to be essential for the continuation of my argument; that something is the definition of the beautiful and the sublime as articulated by Kant.
因此，我今天想要要求某个人谈论有关美，我觉得这个人特别有资格讨论它，跟某件我认为是基本的事情相关，作为我的论点的继续。某件东西就是美与升华的定义，依照康德所表达。
Involved there is a form of category analysis that is of the highest significance in any effort to connect up with the topological structuration that I am pursuing with you here. It seems to me essential to take the time to recall Kant's insights, if you have already read The Critique of Judgment, or to hear what they are, if you haven't yet had the opportunity to read that work. That is why I have asked Mr. Kaufmann to speak to us now.
在此牵涉的是一种范畴分析的形式，具有最高的重要性，当我们努力要联贯我在此跟你们一起追求的拓扑图形的结构。我觉得重要的是找到时间提醒你们对康德的洞察。假如你们已经读过「判断的批判」，或是听过它们是什么。假如你们还没有拥有这个机会来阅读那个著作。那就是为什么我曾经要求考夫曼先生现在跟我们演讲。
You will see afterwards the use that we might make of the work he will be presenting for your benefit today. [Mr. Kaufmann's presentation followed.
你们不久将会看出我们使用这个著作的这个用途，他今天将呈现给，为了你们的利益。（以下是考夫曼的演讲）。
You were certainly right to state that infinitesimal calculus is evoked behind the experience of the sublime. One should note that in Kant's time infinitesimal calculus still harbored a kind of mystery of the signifier that has totally disappeared since that time.
你们确实是正确的，假如你们陈述，数学微积分被引用，在升华的这个经验的背后。我们应该注意到，在康德的时代，数学微积分依旧怀抱能指的这种神秘。自从那时以来，这种能指的神秘就消失了。
The 1764 passage you quoted from Kant should really be communicated
to Claude LeVi-Strauss, as the inaugural speech he gave on being appointed
to his Chair at the Collige de France is already implied there. I don't mean by that antedated, but anticipated precisely in a way that is not emphasized at all in Rousseau. Kant already founds the ethics of ethnography there.
你们从康德引述的第1764段落，确实应跟列文、史特劳斯沟通。因为他发表的就职演讲，当他被任命为法国学院的院长，这篇段落在那里就被暗示着。我并不是说它早先日期被发表。而是确实地被预期著，用卢梭根本就没有强调的方式。康德在那里已经创建少数种族的伦理学的基础。
The work you presented today suggested to the audience here, which is
heterogeneous in its educational background, the idea of structures around which Kant both regroups and dissociates the idea of the beautiful. We might have placed in the background the idea of pleasure in Aristotle and have quoted the nice little definition he gives of it in the Rhetoric.
你们今天呈现的工作，跟这里的教育背景多样性的观众，建议这些结构的观念。环绕这些观念，康德既重新聚集，也分离美的这个观念。我们本来可能将快乐的这个观念，放置在亚里斯多德，并且引述他在「修辞学」给予它的那个漂亮小定义。
We will use that as a fulcrum - something that is in traditional philosophy
- when we take up again where we left off the question of the effect of tragedy .Although we think we always have to defer to Aristotle, that effect concerned cannot be fully explained in terms of moral catharsis.
June 15, I960
我们将会使用那个作为是平衡点—在传统哲学的某件东西—当我们再次从我们停止的地方开始从事，悲剧的效应的这个问题。虽然我们认为我们总是必须回溯到亚里斯多德，那种相关的效应无法充分地被解释，用道德的心灵净化的术语。
1969年6月15日
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